SHOOTING PEOPLE - UK SCREENWRITERS NETWORK
Supported by The Script Factory

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From: Robin Kelly, http://www.writing.org.uk
Subject: Re: Copyright

Putting your script into a sealed envelope and posting it to yourself doesn't work. What's stopping the writer simply opening the envelope, changing the script and then resealing it? And if someone wants to avoid any hint of re-sealing, they could simply post their script without sealing it and then swap it years later for a rip-off of the latest blockbuster. Registration is your only protection.

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From: Adam Bromley
Subject: protecting your ideas

I am writing to back up Alex's sentiments about how writers do frequently come up with the same ideas independently. It does seem so implausible and yet it happens so often I'm less surprised by it.

Mind you I have heard horror stories where production companies have outright ripped off material from naive or gullible writers so it's not something to ignore.

I would say that often the people who are most obsessed about protecting their ideas, scripts etc very often tend to have the most humdrum and run-of-mill stuff that no one would pinch anyway.

That is the huge advantage of proper representation is that you've got someone to fight your corner, if a production company does ever decide to screw you over.

One simple tactic to protect material is either the standard address it to yourself recorded delivery and then don't open it- you can then prove your copyright (if it's copyrightable stuff in the first place) or send the thing in confidence to people, which means the material is covering by the breach of confidence rules.

But I have to say overall that I'd agree that the whole thing of ideas being ripped off etc can be a colossal red herring, Scorcese's a terrible magpie and loads of classic scripts, pop songs etc wear their influences on their sleeve, it's inevitable in a creative biz.

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From: Alex Francis
Subject: Re: Copyright

Into this climate of paranoia about companies stealing projects, I thought I would just add a few comments.

It is important to keep in mind that there are only so many completely original stories and ideas out there, and often many writers are inspired by the same sources (newspaper headlines, items on television, the general zeitgeist etc.). I mention this because whenever I hear writers complaining about their stories being stolen, I wonder if they are just victims of coincidence.

During a three month period last year I received three different scripts that had all updated the same Greek myth, and set it in the same modern setting. If we had proceeded with any one of them, I'm convinced we would have had two other writers trying to sue us for stealing their ideas. I have no idea why they had all come up with the same idea at the same time, maybe a new translation of Greek myths had come out, who knows. Just this week, I opened a package, started reading a cover letter, and thought 'oh, X has changed the name of his script' before getting to the bottom and seeing it was a different writer and producer entirely. The story was almost identical to one we had been considering getting involved with, brought to us by a different team. A massive coincidence. This happens all the time and is the reason why many companies make writers sign release forms before they will even read a script. It doesn't surprise me in the slightest that for every hit film, a month or two later you'll read in the press about some writer somewhere suing the company for stealing the idea.

So my point is this. Don't get too obsessed about your ideas being ripped off. It is so much easier, if a company likes your idea but not your writing, to option it from you and hire another writer to do a re-write. It saves legal headaches, and means they can get on with the project without worrying about a future lawsuit and all the uncertainty that could bring. There may well be idiotic sleazy producers out there who do this, but they are very much the exceptions to the rule. By all means take basic steps to protect yourself (I've never believed the idea about posting it to yourself, but I'm sure everyone at least knows someone who knows a lawyer who would be prepared to have a copy posted to them, if you can't afford a registration fee). Just make sure that the fear of being ripped off doesn't stop you from getting feedback to make your script better, and getting your script out there to the producers who can get your career rolling.

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From: Dash
Subject: re:copyright

"Yes copyright is implicit"

I totally agree with MS, but even registering with the WGA (the writers guild in the US) unless you are a union member still doesn't give you the protection that registering your copyright with a form PA. You should do this for a number of reasons, not least of which if the film is made with SAG actors the guild won't even start the paper work if you haven't got copyright. Even if you are working on an experimental budget. Now it's $25 to register (actually i think it amy have gone up to 30 recently) and takes a couple of months for the confirmation sheet to come back, BUT if you are already in production and have to have it immediately then you have to pay an expediting service in Washington and it will set you back closer to $100. if you want to save money on shorts i think you can copyright up to three at a time under the heading of "the collected works of ..."

Lastly most distributors will also require registered copyright. How many hours did you put into writing the piece? What is the lowest hourly rate that you would work for? After this equation $25 to protect it doesn't seem like such a lot does it?

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From: Tom Hickmore
Subject: copyright

Forgive me if someone's already said this, but copyright's just a question of proving you've written it in this country, but it's really worth copyright protecting your script in the US with the US library of congress. It costs 30 dollars. Their web site is

http://www.loc.gov/copyright/reg.html look for form PA.

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From: Nigel Sizer, Really Intelligent Productions
Subject: Script Editors & Copyright

The question of how, why, where to register copyright is quite frankly academic. Registering it is 1% of the battle. If your copyright is infringed you have to make a decision about whether to lay out five figure sums to challenge the maker of the other film. It is all about who has the biggest war chest and the best team of lawyers and not simply about justice. There are mechanisms in place to stop films being released either on tv or cinema ...but if you do this (and lose) you'll be sued for the loss of revenue as well as legal costs. It is very very difficult to disprove the similar ideas argument.

(If anyone would like a serious discussion about what we can do, off list, please feel free to contact me.)

Finally, a less serious note re Soap / Feature wars... If soap writing is a learning ground for writers wanting to move on to features, what are the writers of the Eldorado soap working on now?

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From: Charlie Harris, www.screen-lab.co.uk
Subject: how to copyright script based on true story

"I have just finished a feature length film script based on two historical characters (both lovers) whose fascinating lives changed the 20th century and so make compelling drama. I am about to 'hawk' my treatment round but unsure on how standard copyright procedures will protect me in this instance as once identified anyone else after research can pinch my subject. In terms of 'true' stories are there are specific copyright steps I should take?"

I'm no lawyer so if you are seriously concerned you should take proper legal advice (that's the disclaimer out of the way) but this is a précis of the information I've managed to find for my True Fiction seminar this Saturday in London.

There is no copyright on stories and people in the public domain. The same reason as you were able to write about these two historical figures without infringing anyone else's copyright means that (unfortunately) so can anyone else, however much you register your script.

However, if they use anything you have developed yourself - e.g.: structure, dialogue, attitude, point of view, theme, invented characters and scenes or even your own private research - then that is rightly your copyright. For example, no-one can steal your dialogue unless you have already taken it from some other source, e.g.: a published letter, speech, etc. And you could well also have a fair claim if you have produced a unique script showing that Oliver Cromwell was a transvestite, and someone else wrote the same story in a similar way.

(On the other hand, this also applies to your own use of material you may have been using for research, so be careful. If you have used history books with a specific slant or thesis, private letters, or even published speeches, etc, which are still in copyright themselves - ie: it is less than 70 years since the author's death - then they are not necessarily free for you to use.)

However, copyright is not all. You also have cover under the law of confidentiality - which can be stronger. If you make it clear that you are sending this script (treatment, etc) out "in confidence" then anything that is not public knowledge in the script cannot rightfully then be reproduced without your permission - which includes making it into a film. If you pitch your story verbally, you can follow up with a letter that subtly and politely mentions the "in confidence" nature of the pitch.

I hope this helps.

For anyone who wants to come to my True Fiction seminar, we'll be looking at all aspects of making scripts out of true stories.

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From: Alex Francis
Subject: Re: Copyright issues

Barry wrote:

"Their answer was:- 'Before submitting the script/idea, send a letter requesting a pre-read agreement, i.e. tell them that you are going to send material and you would like their agreement that if not suitable for them, they would guarantee to respect your intellectual property rights. If they refuse to do so, then don't send it'"

While this sounds fine in principle, what legitimate company wouldn't respect intellectual property rights? I don't think this is a good idea.

As I mentioned in a post a month or two ago, this year our company received three scripts updating the same Greek myth to the same modern setting, 2 scripts set in the same period in London's past with very similar lead characters, and 2 scripts set in the same time in US history based on the same real life characters. Imagine how often this must happen to the really big companies. It is a fact of life in this industry that there are almost certainly a number of people right now working away on the same brilliant idea you have. You just have to hope that yours is better, and you get it to the right people first.

If I received the letter above I would assume I'm dealing with someone who doesn't understand this fact, and that if we signed it, passed on their idea, and then decided to go with a similar one later on by someone bringing a different and more appealing sensibility to it, then we would probably face a lawsuit or at best find our name being dragged through the mud by some bitter writer who feels he was ripped off. I would almost certainly pass on the privilege of reading this person's script, and I suspect pretty much every other development person would as well. In fact, it is increasingly common for the production company to get the writer to sign a release before agreeing to read their script, to protect themselves against just these kinds of lawsuits.

Yes, there may be scumbags out there who rip off story ideas, but they are certainly extremely rare. Risking having people not even look at your script for fear they will steal it is a sure-fire way to prevent your career taking off.

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From: Martin D.
Subject: Copyright

First it is VERRRRRRRY rare for someone to pinch your work- (its much easier to hire/buy off the original writer- you do have after all all the original source material and no producer wants the law suits or the rip off rep.)- what can happen is that the laws of coincidence kicks in- my proposed second book's exact title and content (about writing for broadcast) was published by a different publishing house after I was commissioned by my publisher to write it- I've also recently read a dozen scripts straight dealing with priest abuse. I think that a combination of a lot of writers looking at similar source material combined with the time being right for the story/work is a factor.

I will bet you that EVERY other script reader will tell you exact same stories of similar themed stories arriving on their desks.

Basically don't get paranoid- it's just the gods toying with you.

Someone was worried about someone stealing their ideas based on real people-first there's no copyright on ideas and second- I will bet you anything you like- if the source of this material (real historical figures) are as interesting as you say they are- that at least a dozen writers right now are mulling over using them in stories. Basically, get it written; get it rewritten and when it's good get it out before YOU are accused of copying someone else.

Lastly- as far as I am aware- technically what IS copyright is the sequence of words you use. You can only sue for infringement- if the rival script is extremely close. So sorry you guys. Hitler, The Marx brothers; and any other person you like- can't be copyrighted- neither can you reserve real events for your own material. Of course you can always make up something completely up. I mean how many stories can there be> Oops think SP already did THAT particular subject.

In other words; no story you will write will be original; no source material is yours alone. What is unique is your version of the event or story. Your slant is what makes you a writer and not a journalist.

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From: Tom Shutes
Subject: Re: Copyright debate

I would like to throw in a penny on the copyright debate. From my own experience in the industry I can honestly say that if the idea is good enough; it will get made. So personally I would suggest that the energy might be better thrown into writing a better piece of material than worrying about the outside chance that one might get ripped off.

I would also like to throw in the fact that, as writers, we surely face a much more demanding debate in the issues that surround use of copyrighted works being exploited through the internet. This is a real concern because it involves a copyright that has been established. The problem is simply that if your work (TV or Film, etc.) is going to be simulcast on the internet, or recorded for delayed broadcast etc., what happens to that work when someone downloads the file and is then able to re-broadcast / duplicate and sell on DVD / sell on pirate copies. The problems of remunerating people properly is a very serious issue for writers since the residuals one would normally expect to receive would diminish substantially.

I have seen with some concern that wile in the US the actors unions and writers guild have been very pro-active in this area and a general strike has now been arranged for the spring of next year, there seems to be little more than apathy coming from our own representatives over here. Anyone got anything to offer on this?

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From: Marc
Subject: Copyright

On the subject of copyright – enough already!

Put crudely, it's like this: the chances of your idea being attractive enough for anyone to want to spend money (not writer's fees, but production expenses) turning it into a film are ooh, say, one in five hundred.

Then, even if that test is passed, the chances of your idea also being original are ooh, say, one in five hundred. You'd be amazed at the frequency with which an idea, thought by a writer to finally be the one that will have David Fincher scrambling for the phone, has actually already been thought of. We're all breathing same air, remember.

And the chances that your idea (assuming that it's both good and original) will be nicked by some scheming prodco or producer are ooh, say, one in five hundred. Firstly, if it's just your idea they nick, they're still going to have to pay thousands to some other poor sap to turn it into a script, so why not pay you instead?

Secondly, the vast majority of script buyers are basically ethical, whatever you might think. And thirdly, even the tiny minority who aren't probably won't want to engage in any dirty tricks that run the risk of ruining their reputation in what is a very small industry.

So the chances of your idea being nicked are – well, whatever one in five hundred in five hundred in five hundred is (hey, I'm a writer, not a statistician). Now, do you really think it's worth all this worry? It's like mugging and burglary: the time we spend worrying about it is way disproportionate to the chances of it actually happening.

And here's one final thought. Even if you take all the copyright measures that have been recommended here – sealing your script in a time capsule, sending it to the British Museum etc – if someone really wants to nick your idea, they will. And you will waste a lot of time, money and effort trying to prove the unproveable – i.e. that they didn't think of it themselves independently.

So in the words of wiseguys everywhere – furget abahd it. The chances of your blockbuster script being stolen are even smaller than the chances of you writing it in the first place.

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From: Mary Gordon
Subject: Re: Copyright

Paranoia about copyright is usually - in my opinion -- indulged in by people whose work isn't that good and they wallow in it as a distraction from the hard work of producing good stuff.

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From: Dave
Subject: Copyright

Can anyone point me in the right direction on registering copyright for as cheap as possible. I know the post it to yourself routine, and have registered scripts at BECTU but my subscription has lapsed and want to know about alternatives like on-line sites etc.

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From: Mark Johnson
Subject: Re: Copyright Warning - Who has your script now?

Thanks for all the positive feedback to my posting!

Another thing you should be doing before sending your material to anyone, is ensuring you have it registered for copyright purposes.

"From what I understand in these issues, the idea that you can simply post your material to yourself, is not something which carries much, if any weight in a court dispute. (If someone can point to legislation or case-law which says it is, I'd like to hear about it). I'm not a legal expert, so can't guarantee I'm right.

However, to be safe, I use Raindance's Script Registration Service (free to members - Membership £15 per year) and send my work as soon as it is in a developed stage (you can't copyright an idea - the concept has to be developed). Raindance - www.raindance.co.uk - 0207 287 3833.

It's not obsessive - it's just good business practice! After all, how many times do you hear of Mercedes or saying, we've had a great idea for a great new car that we hope to make in a couple of years, go to our web-site and see all the plans! (and then you can make it yourself - Dr. Evil!)

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From: Mark Grant
Subject: Re: Copyright Warning - Who has your script now?

"1/ You've had the great idea! 2/ You've written the HOT SCRIPT, Short, feature, etc. 3/ You want to get it produced. But, who are you sending your scripts to?"

While I can understand that writers are paranoid about copyright, I think everyone should ask themselves this: how often are scripts or story outlines actually stolen? I can only think of a handful of cases which have been proven in court in the last few decades.

Unless it's very low budget, if your script is good enough that someone would want to steal it, then the odds are high that it's good enough that they can raise enough money to pay you for it, and avoid any potential threat of legal action in the future; no sensible producer would go to the trouble of raising a lot of money to produce a movie, only to find when they come to distribution that no-one will touch it because a writer is suing them for copyright infringement... all for the sake of saving a few percent of the budget (and most of the rest probably couldn't raise the money to make it, or make a half-decent movie out of it).

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From: Rosie Russon
Subject: Copyright Warning - Who has your script now?

"While I can understand that writers are paranoid about copyright, I think everyone should ask themselves this: how often are scripts or story outlines actually stolen? I can only think of a handful of cases which have been proven in court in the last few decades."

Unfortunately more than you think. Most creators get something nicked at some point in their career. Most cases do not get to the courtroom because of the huge expense involved and a certain amount of lethargy on behalf of the individual concerned. It takes a lot of time, effort and money to get even halfway with litigation. You either need to have the weight of an organisation or union behind you, or be very rich and successful, and if the later, chances are people will hesitate before stealing your work in the first place.

To add to Mark Johnson's suggestion of copyright protection, you can also contact ALCS - Authors Licensing and Collecting Society at www.alcs.co.uk who deal solely with this subject, and when your masterpiece has been made and paid for, they also deal with the secondary rights, photocopying etc. on your behalf, so you could still be getting paid for it in 10 years time as it gets resold and re transmitted. Maybe it won't happen to you, but forewarned is forearmed.

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From: Rob
Subject: Re: Copyright Warning - Who has your script now?

I've always placed new material in the 'safe keep' account of my bank, (envelope flaps sellotaped and signed over witnessed by a bank official etc) only to be retrieved and opened in a court of law in the case of dispute. Any ideas of the reliability of this please?

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From: Gilli Moorhawk
Subject: Copyrighting

Take five envelopes. Write your name and address on them. Put a stamp on them. Do not seal. Take to your local post office and post. Two or three days later (given Post Office efficiency) you have five date stamped envelopes. Store under your bed for ten years. When ten years are up, go onto Internet, go to Drew's Script-o-rama and find the best five box office hits for that year. Print out a copy of each. Pop in your envelopes, seal and take to your solicitor claiming you wrote all these scripts ten years

ago and these film companies ripped you off...

Only registering with the legitimate bodies will hold up in court... The envelope trick isn't enough.

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From: Hugh
Subject: A copyright tale

There's an article in the current edition of 'The Author' by a guy called Leon Arden which might be of interest to those getting bogged down in the thorny issue of copyright, script registering etc.

Arden wrote a novel called 'The Devil's Trill', which you probably won't have heard of since I think it was only published in the States (unless you're already familiar with the sad tale that follows, in which case skip to the next posting). You might, however, recognise the premise: a guy is caught up in a repeating day, living the same 24 hours over and over again. He tries and fails to seduce the object of his affections, but with each rebuff wiped from her memory by the repeating day, he learns more and more about her until she finally surrenders to him when he seems to be able to intuit amazingly private things about her... Sound familiar?

You can guess what's coming next. Arden's novel, first in manuscript form, then as a published book, does the rounds of the film companies. Options are taken up, lapse, are sold again, the usual rigmarole.

So imagine Arden's surprise when Columbia Pictures (who had rejected the novel outright) suddenly released a film called 'Groundhog Day'. Imagine his anger when 'Groundhog Day' went on to gross $70m and he didn't see a penny of it.

He sued them. He took legal advice and he took Columbia Pictures to court. And Arden had rather more up his sleeve than an obscure registration document: he had a novel published by a reputable American publishing house, he had proof that Columbia Pictures had read his novel (proof often lacking in those who cry foul) and he was attacking a high-concept, extremely successful film. He sued them for $15m.

He lost.

Judge Denny Chin in the US District Court of New York ruled: "Ideas are not copyrightable and the law has sought to strike a balance between protecting original works and promoting further creativity, a balance that has resulted in - even assuming the defendants did copy Mr Arden's idea - a creative, entertaining work that is substantially different from his expression of his idea."

There are two main lessons, I think, to be drawn from this:

1. That phrase "ideas are not copyrightable" means exactly what it says. If you write a script in which the idea is strong and the execution weak, your idea will be stolen. And you will have no legal redress - whatever steps you have taken to copyright your work.

And therefore:

2. The only way to protect yourself is to make the execution of the idea just as good as the idea itself. So good, in fact, that it becomes indistinguishable from the idea, so good that any other execution of your idea is unimaginable. Then no one has any reason to steal your idea: the perfect script is right there in front of them.

If on the other hand your idea, your premise can be extracted from your execution and a better execution easily imagined - either by an executive or by a lowly reader-cum-frustrated-scriptwriter - then it will happen. Your idea will be stolen. And you will be the loser, in law as well as in fact.

So: don't waste time sending yourself sealed envelopes. Don't pay over large sums of money (or even small sums of money) to 'register' your script. If they want to steal your idea, they can and will steal it. You have to make it so they don't want to steal it. You have to make it so they couldn't even if they wanted to.

It's a tough job, which is why it's so much fun.

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