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Compilation © Robin Kelly 2001 - 2003
Edited and compiled by Robin Kelly exclusively for Writing for Performance
SHOOTING PEOPLE - UK SCREENWRITERS NETWORK
Supported by The Script Factory
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From: Richard Bird
Subject: Re: Binding Scripts
With reference to comb binding scripts, from the point of the Production Company this is the least satisfactory method of presenting a script.
The script is permanently bound and can't be opened properly, photocopied easily, amended or have notes and comment pages added, and is hard to read on the tube. It also means that if A and B pages are added, the whole script has to be printed off again.
I don't want to start a 2 vs 3 brad debate :), but please... no comb binding.
(who also hates those two part 'U-bracket' slidey metal holders)
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From: Robin Kelly, http://www.writing.org.uk
Subject: Re: Copyright and other matters
Once again people offering services to writers are criticised. Yes, I agree there probably are too many people charging exorbitant prices for bad work but this applies as much to plumbing services as writing services. What is good about the writing community is that most of us are willing to help each other out if we can for free, in person and on the web, but not all of us have the experience or the free time needed. That's where script editors, book writers and course trainers come in. They may be the last resort but they are not the enemy.
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From: Alex Francis
Subject: Re: and other matters
"There are too many people 'running courses' or 'writing books' or offering 'reading services' or what have you and charging exorbitant prices for skill-less kack. No one established or up and coming in the mainstream (or authentic independent) industry will ever ask you to pay for anything - in fact, it's seen as reputational suicide. So not only don't pay for 'copyrighting' your work, (you're paying for something you all ready have), don't pay for anything else either."
I don't take exception to the advice on copyright, or the warning about paying for services run by people who don't have the skills to justify their charges.
However, the point about never paying anyone for their reading services has been made before, and once again I would like to chime in with a defence of the script editing profession (profession, as in something someone is paid for). First, let me make it clear that while I was a freelance script editor for many years, I've moved up the ladder, so this is NOT a plug for work.
It is very difficult, if not impossible, to get a genuinely honest appraisal of your script from friends, family, colleagues, in fact anyone who knows you personally. No matter how much you ask them to 'give it to me straight'. Even if they do try to give their honest opinion, it is unlikely that they are fully trained in how to go about doing this. It's one thing to say if you like or don't like a script, another to say why you liked or didn't like it, another to say how you would go about fixing those aspects that you felt didn't work, and another thing again to do this in a way that is coherent, useful, that goes along with what you as the writer were trying to achieve rather than what they personally would have tried to achieve etc. All these things are real skills that take training and experience to do well, and those people who have learned to do this deserve to get paid the same way that someone who has trained to be a set decorator, DOP, Grip, 1st AD etc. etc. deserves to get paid.
Of course, ask for references, talk to the person first to see if you are on the same wavelength. Make sure the charges are the going rate. But keep one thing in mind. When you send that script off to production companies and agents (who, by the way, should NEVER charge you for their appraisal) you only have one chance to make that first impression. Working in Development now, you wouldn't believe the number of scripts I receive that fall down on the most basic aspects, that any decent script editor would have spotted and helped with. As a writer, you are running a business. Budding directors think nothing of spending hundreds or thousands of pounds on DV cameras, tapes, editing suites etc. to help their careers, yet writers often balk at spending a fraction of that on the one product they are trying to sell. Their script. If you simply have no money at all, then continue to get feedback from anyone who will offer it for free (writers groups can be useful in that way), but don't think that just because someone is charging money for that service they are ripping people off. Good script editing is a skill like any other in this business, and deserves respect.
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From: Jessica Levick
Subject: FW: and other matters
"I would like to chime in with a defence of the script editing profession (profession, as in something someone is paid for). First, let me make it clear that while I was a freelance script editor for many years, I've moved up the ladder, so this is NOT a plug for work."
I agree with everything you say about script editing... I have been reading for film companies for a while now, and it becomes more and more apparent the longer I do it how useful a script editor can be to writers. Given the fact that anyone who writes fiction in the world of publishing HAS to work with an editor on the manuscript before it will ever be printed, it is interesting how under rated script editing is in film. The editor of a book combines all the knowledge of the publishing business and book sales, with a creative understanding of the writing process, and is there to cushion the author from the business world in many respects. In the same way, a script editor can be a buffer between the producer and money men on a film, and the writer-creative. Perhaps the under-use of script editors, and the resulting suspicion of writers towards them, is just an example of how under rated the script itself is in film. There is generally very little infrastructure surrounding the script and the writing process- leaving it up to those money men and directors to alter the script along the way. Hopefully this will change with the new Film Council objectives?
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From: Nigel Sizer
Subject: Script Editors
I too agree with the comments about script editors. I find it astonishing that there is a marked lack of comprehension about what a script editor is there to do. They are a mirror to which the writer holds up their work. If it's good it is obvious. If it is bad, "with a leap Jack was free, etc. etc." once again it is obvious. The script editor can then point the writer to the holes and hand them the Polyfilla.
Simple eh?
As for prices, 25ukp+vat per read hour, 50ukp+vat for a feature is not unusual. That would include a written report, and short e-mail answers to the odd supplementary question.
Moving on.
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From: Richard
Subject: Script Doctors...Again!
Hope no one minds me adding to the discussion...so here goes.
The idea of a "script doctor" (I'm using the term to mean story editor) is not to decide whether a script is good or bad. Those judgements are left for God and Ridley (there's a joke about that but it it'll take too long). The story editor's task is to analysis the work critically, outlining where there are weaknesses in plot and premise. To explore whether the theme or controlling idea is clear enough. To give feedback on characterisation, visual style, pace and feasibility. To borrow from the world of Education, the story editor has to be a critical friend.
Of course a reader does some of this, and a good reader (take a bow Script Factory) does all of it; but a story editor will do it in spades, and of course...you get what you pay for. If your only going to pay someone GBP35 well you're not going to get very much now are you? Consider...it takes three hours to read the script twice and lets say four hours to write a four page report on all of the topics listed above. Well, that's a day out of anybody's life...hmmm...and all for GBP5 per hour! Even at the other extreme GBP150 for a twenty page report, which will take the best part of 25 hours, you're only looking at GBP6 per hour. Whichever route you go I'm sure you'll agree it's pretty good value for money...and funnily enough, the best "script doctors" are not the ones who tell you your script is great... but you already knew that didn't you.
If you want to know more go to the WORDPLAY site and check out their "death to readers" file.
Good luck and may the "Head of Development Angel" smile upon you.
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From: Frances Cox
Subject: Script reading services
"Never pay for a script reading service. This is a golden rule." I COULDN'T DISAGREE MORE!
As a novice who has never sold anything, I always send my first draft to the same person (who HAS sold things) to get his feedback. He was also a reader for quite a while, so knows what the reader (your first audience) is looking for. Since my first ill-formatted, ill-structured, ill-conceived and embarrassing attempt and largely as a result of his hugely helpful input, positive and cruelly negative, I have watched my work improve to the point where I'm quite proud of my most recent piece.
One of the most consistent pieces of advice I've gleaned from my reading is NEVER to send to production companies or agents until your piece is FINISHED. After a while, if you send them shoddy scripts, word gets around and your card is marked. Writers' groups are useful, but why should several aspiring writers be any better than one at looking at your script? One to one exchanges are also useful, but the same applies.
I have no problem with the idea of paying for a service if you can. I wouldn't expect my house to be wired for free, nor would I feel entirely secure if a keen friend did it for me. I hope one day to make this my career - why would I place it in the hands of amateurs?
I'm also, however, going to send to a service which my scriptreader contact suggested as an alternative solution and one which would save money. The free script doctor, www.script-doctor.org is an 'aspiring script analyst' offering free reports. I suspect he's probably inundated as a result, so it might be a slow turnaround, but I'm going to give it a whirl.
William Froug, who teaches (taught?) at UCLA, says in his book "Zen and the Art of Screenwriting" that even the best graduates from his course haven't normally sold anything before their fifth or sixth script. Up until that time they are honing their craft. I sincerely hope he's wrong, but surely, if you're going to take the time to write four or five scripts, you owe it to yourself to ensure that you learn from the weaknesses of each.
Ooops. Got a bit carried away there.
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From: Briony, Script Factory
Subject: Script Reading
We couldn't help but rise to the challenge regarding the advice to never pay for a script reading service because they are simply there to make money out of writers. If only! The Script Factory provides a script feedback service offering script reports at
a cost of 50 UKP. We make enough money from this to pay the freelance reader who writes the report and cover the cost of postage to and from that reader - leaving about no pounds fifty glorious profit. Our reports are extensive commenting on premise, structure, character, dialogue, tech aspects and feasibility. We consistently receive feedback on our feedback ('it held up so much for me to think about / as a result I'm congratulating myself on not wasting the next 6 months writing a crap script / I found it extremely thorough, erudite, perceptive and enlightening' etc etc etc). The SF is a small not for profit organisation - we are in business because we want to support writers to get their screenplays into a state where they have the chance to be the foundation for brilliant, inspiring, exciting, innovative and entertaining films. Our feedback service is one aspect of that support - and writers can take it or leave it!
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From: Susan Shearman, www.susanshearman.homestead.com
Subject: Script reading services
I was sent a script a while ago and invited to PM/line produce it as it was set to go, money wise. I read it and wrote back telling the writer that it was currently not in a state to shoot. Rather than rant at my insulting his brilliant work, he took my advice and found a reader.
I have just read the report - which is absolutely brilliant (and didn't cost an arm and several legs). The reader has identified the weaknesses and strengths of the piece and addressed them in detail. She has advised on funding, budget, layout and means of getting the script into production once it has been polished.
I seriously believe that this script has potential and shall be delighted to work on the finished product. I was not willing to work on the project in its present form.
As a direct result of the script being professionally read and analysed, I think this is now a movie that will get made.
Worth the odd few quid - don't you think?
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From: Alex Francis
Subject: Script Readers
As someone who used to be a freelance script editor (but no longer, so this is not a plug for work), I wrote a rambling note about the issue of paying for script advice, which was apparently too rambling, so on the KISS basis (Keep It Simple Stupid) I'll try again.
Script Editing is a profession like any other in this industry. All the best writers, even with credits coming out of their wazoos, work with them. This is because you need an experienced, impartial reader to spot problems you may have overlooked, to see what may be in your head but not yet on the page, to help bounce ideas around for jams the script has run into, but most importantly to push you to your limits and help your vision to be fully realised on the page. For this they naturally expect and deserve payment.
They do not ask for a co-writer credit, and it would be unprofessional to publicly cite, without permission, the names of scripts they have worked on as some could see that as taking credit away from the writer (look at all the rumours about who 'really' wrote Good Will Hunting). Now, at the risk of stating the bleedin' obvious, if you aren't sure about someone's qualifications, talk to them before sending any money, see who is willing to vouch for them, but don't let the fact that there are cowboys out there (as there are in every other profession on the planet) stop you from using an extremely valuable resource. Once a company has read your script and passed on it because it isn't good enough, that's it. You don't get a chance to send it back saying 'I've made some changes and think it's much better now.' If it was full of really basic mistakes, chances are they won't be too keen to read your next one either.
If you're genuinely broke, then use whatever free advice you can find, as it is certainly better than nothing. Otherwise, if you are serious about becoming a screenwriter, try investing in your own career. After all, you are asking producers to gamble literally millions of pounds on turning your script into a movie, surely you should be prepared to gamble 50-100 quid on it.
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From: Robert Bagnall
Subject: Script reports
Just to continue the theme of paid script reports (and, without wishing to sound like Nat West's smug granny) - there is another way. Join American Zoetrope (http://www.zoetrope.com/) and have your scripts read and reviewed.
There is a cost, of course - you have to read and report on other people's screenplays. But that can only be good training. And, yes, there is a chance that you'll get a rank amateur who thinks act breaks just mean pausing the video to get the drinks in. But, as has already been pointed out, you get no guarantee of quality when you pay your fifty pounds.
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From: Elspeth Bookman
Subject: Words of Wisdom
Okay, Pop Quiz.
Hands up all you writers who regularly read movie scripts. Not that many, I'm guessing.
Would you write a poem without every reading any poetry? Would you compose a pop song without ever listening to any music? Ok, so you've seen lots of videos, but it's DEFINITELY NOT the same thing. The best way to learn the art of screen writing, in my very humble opinion, is to read great screenplays. There's hundreds on the net, you have no excuses!!
And if you get the chance to read a couple of dozen really bad ones too, then you'll see what us Producers have to go through on a near daily basis.
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From: Tim
Subject: scripts
Someone was asking where they could get hold of scripts. My source is Hollywood Book & Poster in Los Angeles... it's where the pros go. They stock copies of most American scripts TV and Film and show bibles. They are generally right up to date, the scripts are released as soon a film is... You can even request different drafts.
The number is: (323)-465-8764. Scripts range from $10-$15 plus S&H. You save on the shipping if you buy several at one time. You can use your credit card, they're a very reputable store.
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From: Catharine Gulick
Subject: Re: Script reading
"Hi, Does anyone know the best way to get script reading work or have any experience of said field of work in London?"
Hi Kas. I got scriptreading work through doing work experience in film company offices. It's a matter of course that they have so many scripts to get through that some are handed down to runners and interns. What I did was devote a lot of attention to my reports and then when my work experience time was over I asked if I could stay on as a scriptreader (unpaid). I would imagine that people with paid scriptreading jobs (rare!) might start with this kind of background, and then call around the other companies asking if they need any more scriptreaders.
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From: Script Factory, www.scriptfactory.com
Subject: script reading work
Further to the various questions about how to get script reading work, we thought Shooters may be interested to know that The Script Factory runs regular courses in reading on two levels: Introduction to Script Reading & Industry Reader & Development Training. Successful participants are then added to The Script Factoryıs own roster of paid Readers (reading the submissions for our rehearsed readings programme) and also have the benefit of being recommended for work elsewhere (as we are frequently asked to recommend good readers by production companies who are aware of the training). The courses have been running since last year, have been hugely successful and gained momentum to the point that they are currently oversubscribed until mid summer. However we are now scheduling additional courses so a number of extra places are likely to be freed up sooner we hope. Interested Shooters might like to e mail us your postal address for more info to general@scriptfactory.freeserve.co.uk
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